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General Airgun Categories => Maintenance, Modifications and Upgrades => Topic started by: seagate on December 28, 2016, 10:25:39 PM

Title: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on December 28, 2016, 10:25:39 PM
 Whilst I was perusing around Halfords I noticed some 3in1 ptfe dry lube, apparently you spray it on and give it a couple of minutes to evaporate offthe carrier agent  and it leaves the surface with a thin film of ptfe bonded in to the surface of the metal.

 So could it be worth using on a springer , maybe to put abit on the piston and some down the comp tube, then reassembling without and moly grease/paste on the piston or seal. I'm thinking more for pistons with no bearings on them, maybe like a standard hw piston.
 Any thoughts on the subject.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: rabbit sniper on December 28, 2016, 10:31:57 PM
I've often thought the same but wonder about the heat caused by friction altering consistency but thought about using it before the thin coating of a lube ?
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on December 28, 2016, 10:47:52 PM
 I think it might be a case of rebuild with dry lube then suck it and see. Also something to keep an eye on are the high spots on the piston that may start to gall.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: rabbit sniper on December 28, 2016, 11:18:55 PM
It might be worth a go on rifle that your not overly fond of
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on December 28, 2016, 11:37:07 PM
It might chirp up on the bbs on this subject. Some one will have done before I'd have thought.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: Gambo on December 29, 2016, 09:27:51 AM
There used to be be something similar available called Dri-Slide, which was specifically for this application.

It didn't use PTFE though, but instead used Moly particles suspended in an evaporating carrier.

I've used it stacks of times which great results.

I'm not sure if it's still available though, as I haven't seen it in any gunshops for a few years.

Incidentally, it's 'disappearance' coincides with the recent-ish popularity rise of PCP airguns, and the subsequent fall of favour for springers, so maybe that's says something? :-\

It has to be worth a t'internet search though. ;)


AHEM >>>>>

http://www.drislide.com/

Summat else that may be of interest >>

http://planetairgun.com/index.php?topic=4662.msg53170#msg53170
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on December 29, 2016, 05:36:33 PM
Cheers mucker.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on January 06, 2017, 03:00:10 PM
Curiosity killed the cat :) :).

 Yesterday I relubed the lgu with 3 in 1 ptfe dry lube , the reason I chose that rifle is . 1 it comes apart quickly,
 2 it's got plastic bearings on the piston and comp tube so no metal to metal galling.
3 The gun shoots fine with barely any lube at all.
4 I love my hws and tx more , should it end in tears. ;)
 The rifles got a standard length hw spring in it and it's running virtually on the limit for testing purposes.


 

 Anyroad.. 
 
 Degreased everything  in panel wipe. Pre warmed all the bits in front of the stove. Then gave the piston, spring /guide, comp tube in and outer  a quick spray, left it a while to evaporate the carrier off then repeated.
 The piston seal got  the lightest smear of molly paste and the first couple of coils where the spring meets top hat. So far so good...

 It cocks as smooth as can be, but it did before so..

 After 20 or 30 shots, fired a few hobbies through the chroney, same velocity as previously, initial  consistency looks good.  Previously it would shoot within 10-12 fps with hobbies ,over many shots . So see what it's like in a fortnight after it's had plenty of use.

 
 
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on January 14, 2017, 05:37:03 PM
So had a shootsy this aft with it.

 
 Similar velocity and consistency. No noticeable difference at all. Anyway..
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: landymick on January 14, 2017, 09:50:36 PM
So whats your verdict or are you waiting a bit longer. :)
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on January 15, 2017, 12:08:35 AM
Yeh, I'm going to wait till it's had a full tin through it then chrono ruthlessly, got a lot of previous info to compare it to. Then disassemble for a nosey inside.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on January 22, 2017, 04:40:29 PM
Velocity has gone considerabley , it's not even making 10ftlb, tried the original spring and it's even worse.
 So now looking for a titan spring that will fit. Failing that , I've no idea.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on January 22, 2017, 07:01:13 PM
checked piston and brach seal,seem in good order,checked the pistin bearing for wear,seems good.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: Gambo on January 23, 2017, 09:11:13 AM
Velocity has gone considerabley , it's not even making 10ftlb

Do you put that down to weather conditions (much colder?) or maybe there was some sort of mild dieselling going on with the lubes which was helping power, but has now burned off.....or something else entirely? ???


Putting a stiffer spring (Titan) in there is going to increase recoil. Are you happy to accept that in return for regaining the lost power that was once there? :-\
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on January 23, 2017, 10:11:49 AM
From day one it's had power issues , so.. mines not an isoloted case


Also in to the mix is assembling with dry lube , so I'm in the midst of reassembling with the usual molly paste and grease to see if that makes a difference.

 The idea of getting a titan spring is to quickly shed some light on if the original spring is duff , if this is the case I can order a oe spring from the father land.


 'Ive read on lesser forums that there has been some duff springs so...
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: Gambo on January 23, 2017, 10:30:16 AM
Also in to the mix is assembling with dry lube , so I'm in the midst of reassembling with the usual molly paste and grease to see if that makes a difference.

While it's fun and absorbing to experiment with different lubes in search for that 'magic formula', I think I've said before on here that I believe they'll all been tried, tested, and discarded, numerous times at some point in the past by many many others.

Therefore, it's my belief it's probably best to learn from 'the mistakes of others' and stick to what lubes are known and proven to work. After all, they're popular for a reason!

I admit I've been guilty of experimenting in the past (NO mis-quotes please!), but just like keeping tropical fish, I've learned though failure to now only do what I know will be successful.


Tiz up to you though, and if you enjoy trying and testing different things in your airgun, then great........but keep in mind you will more than likely end up back at square one with what you already know works well. ;)


Jus' saying like!! ;) :)
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on January 23, 2017, 10:59:06 AM
    You're so wise :).
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: airgunnut on January 23, 2017, 12:08:21 PM
Go to your local garage and ask if they have any of the little packets of CV grease, a lot of the time these are thrown away as they use drums of it, apparently it's a very good springer grease.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: Gambo on January 23, 2017, 01:16:55 PM
    You're so wise :).

Thank you......most people call me an idiot!! :-\


Go to your local garage and ask if they have any of the little packets of CV grease, a lot of the time these are thrown away

Tight-arse!! :P

Better to buy some moly grease specially formulated for use in airguns!! ;)
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on January 23, 2017, 02:24:51 PM
I've found the best stuff for pistons is tinbum molly paste , it's dryish and stays put.

 
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: Gambo on January 23, 2017, 02:56:39 PM
For me, it's Abbey MolyGn paste, but sadly you can't get it any more. :'(

Rocol comes a close second.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on January 23, 2017, 03:49:03 PM
So I've been testing, with the standard spring and 1 spacer it's around 600fps with hobbies, with another spacer in the velocity goes down . Similar performance with a hw spring fitted aswell.
   
 I've run out of ideas and more importantly , patience.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: airgunnut on January 23, 2017, 04:33:16 PM
   
 I've run out of ideas and more importantly , patience.
tea and bacon sandwich's, that's what you need!
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on January 23, 2017, 04:58:00 PM
I need something ;D
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: Gambo on January 23, 2017, 05:12:29 PM
with the standard spring and 1 spacer it's around 600fps with hobbies, with another spacer in the velocity goes down .

That would suggest that maybe the spring is being compressed too much and isn't then releasing all it's energy. There's a technical term for it but can't remember what it is at the mo. Jim Tyler did an exhaustive article about it in Airgun World back a few years ago, and that's why I'm aware of it.

Think of it a bit like a boxer not being able to deliver a full swing/extension to a punch because his opponent is too close, so the punch is then less effective as he can't get all his power behind it.

Or.......if a housebrick fell two inches onto your head, and then another housebrick fell from two feet onto your head.....which would hurt more?



Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on January 23, 2017, 05:48:31 PM
 I think the technical term is  err   ''oversprung''  ;D .

 I've just registered with these  http://www.sportwaffen-schneider.de/ .

 Should be able to order a service kit-piston,spring and guide.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: Gambo on January 23, 2017, 06:00:12 PM
I think the technical term is  err   ''oversprung''

By jove I think you're right!!! :o

(I did remember after I posted but then forgot to edit my forgetfulness) :-\



If you think the rifle may be oversprung, then why don't you try lobbing a coil off to see what happens?

If power increases and the recoil goes down (which it will), then you will know which direction to head in.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on January 23, 2017, 06:30:36 PM
With the standard spring it's undersprung , adding preload eventually causes spring bind which causes velocity drop, on the other hand oversprung is a different kettle of fish, this is when  the piston moves the air quicker than can be vented down the tp causing lower velocity and piston chatter.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: Gambo on January 25, 2017, 07:06:56 PM
Exactamundo.

What you said about when you increased preload the velocity went down was made me think t'woz oversprung.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on February 02, 2017, 03:40:48 PM
Still having problems with lgu , so ordered a lgu spring from solware but received lgv spring , tried it out of curiosity but it just makes it slower and feel dreadful.
 
 Run out of interest and patience with it, time for disposal.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: Gambo on February 02, 2017, 07:37:52 PM
Run out of interest and patience with it, time for disposal.

Oh dear.....been there, bough the T-Shirt!!!


Instead of selling it, have you considered putting it aside until you feel fresh with renewed enthusiasm for it?

I've done that a few time....usually when I feel like taking a soddin' great lump hammer to summat!! :-[  It works thar nars!! ;)
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on February 02, 2017, 07:41:04 PM
I'm not selling it , not do I only sometimes feel like taking hammers and fire to things , I actually do it, it's very cathartic.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: 21grains on February 05, 2017, 07:01:17 PM
I have been using Dryslide for 35yrs or so. Beeman Airguns first used it over here in the States for Springer's. They use to have 2oz spray Can's, comes out wet and Air dry's(evaporates) Gray in Color. when You later reaply it cleans and leaves the same mil thickness on work and no more. Good Stuff, I talked to Owner on Phone when Beeman went Bum's up, no more 2oz Cans Sold. only big costly gallon Cans then. Too much for Me and PCP's took over My Life....End of Story.....Franky
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on February 10, 2017, 05:46:16 PM
Thanks for that Franky , I've gone back to traditional moly paste and grease. Tried the dry ptfe on a record trigger assembley , seems ok but need to strip and inspect for wear.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: 21grains on February 10, 2017, 11:08:41 PM
The Brides Car Door Binds and stops with a Galling noise, I sprayed with Dri-slide now it closes right over the stop catch and closes on Your Leg. Had to clean off with Thinner and use Sewing Machine oil instead, Fixed door, but My Leg still hurt's.....Franky
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: shakeysimon on February 11, 2017, 02:05:46 PM
Have you tried rocol on it? I bought a small pot as part of a group deal ages ago,very slippy and consistent
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on February 11, 2017, 02:26:54 PM
Not tried rocol , to be honest my curiosity is on the backburner as non of my rifles will want servicing for a while . If I see a can of it at work , i'll pick it up though for future testing :).
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: Gambo on February 11, 2017, 06:53:40 PM
x2 for Rocol, but it is expensive.....but then again, anything that is good is always expensive.

Quality costs!!
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on February 11, 2017, 07:22:07 PM
I tried some 3in1 branded ptfe dry lube in the hammer housing of my gleaming new hw100, it was ok, I suppose ::)... But normal cheapo spray oil 3in1 helped shot to shot consistency and required less preload on the hammer spring.

 Tried same  ptfe stuff in a much used and ever so slightly polished , well flattened, rekord trigger, it feels fine.
 
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: 21grains on February 12, 2017, 05:12:11 PM
In the Beeman Catalog, It states DANGER don't use Dry-Slide or Molly Paste on Trigger Parts will not pass the Drop Test after use.....That's Lawyer's Speak for sure.....Franky

They also state "Use White Paste on Trigger Part's>"that They Sell by the way" But makes sense .
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on February 12, 2017, 05:34:05 PM
That's interesting Franky .
 I test the triggers on my rifles by giving them a few stout clouts with my hefty rubber mallet on the butt. Works for me.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on February 26, 2017, 07:07:11 PM
Abit more naval gazing involving a hw95 ....
 So chroneod the rifle a couple of weeks ago  after  a few thousand shots of hobbies since previous service.

 hobbies   11.8  640      +- 14fps  10.7ftlb
  fap         13.4  600     +-12        10.7
 s/domes  14.4  585     +- 14       10.9
  jsb16grn 16.0  548     +-8          10.6

 A real pleasure to shoot. :)

 So after a thorough degrease..  coated the spring, guides , piston and seal, piston rod with cheap 3in1 ptfe dry lube. No grease at all involved.

 So after about maybe a tin and half of rws pellets , chronoed it this afternoon.

 Hobbies  11.8  660   +- 6fps    11.4
 fap         13.4  610   +- 4        11.1
 s/domes 14.4   600  +-6          11.4
 jsb16grn 565    565  +-6         11.3

 So gained .7ftlb and it's very consistent for the time being.
 Feels harsh in comparison though . :(

 Next step is to lop off a coil or try a spare spring and  aim for 10.5 -10.7.
Title: Re: Dry lube for springers.
Post by: seagate on March 06, 2017, 06:40:14 PM
Had a little plink with it this afternoon and , yes it does feel a little errm, what's the word ,maybe 'slammy' with hobbies . But with superdomes it feels fine and they're shooting very  tidy .